Didn't the first responders taking over from Penny opt out of reviving Our Greatest Strength - is this an example of traditionally agentic fields trending towards apathy, or did the lack of public virtue and recognition in the immediate sense trigger slavish skirting of ownership?
I'm getting closer to a "chimpout" the next time I am at Krogers and see a giant tranny shopping for produce in the produce section, with his three daughters in tow, probably 8, 10, and 12 years old, who have been taught to call him "mom".
As a matter of personal honor.
As humiliation after humiliation piles up, on me, and on those girls.
We know what honor based 'white' societies look like and they aren't successful places or places you want to live. Today it's South America. The guys who LARP that they actually want to return to that never seem to train in violence in their personal life. They never seem to understand what the violent honor based culture of the Ulster-Scots looked like:
"Meanwhile, the poorer class of Scotch-Irish continued to use the raw violence of their ancestors to settle scores. Scratching, biting, hair pulling, and eye gouging were all fair game. The goal of this style of fighting wasn’t just to defeat your opponent; it was to mark him permanently, to leave visible, lasting proof of his humiliation. This style of honor fighting among the working-class in the South became known as the rough and tumble."
"Gouging out eyes was not only acceptable but expected. In fact, eye gouging was so common in rough and tumbles that this style of fighting was often called “gouging.” Some men even grew their fingernails out to increase their gouging efficiency. "
Ask yourself if what is described above is really all that different from certain behaviors exhibited by non-whites?
Chimping out as you call was what whites did until relatively recently towards each other as much as anyone else.
As your above examples show, there's a reason honor cultures don't scale and why republican societies took over. The question becomes how to limit retributive violence enough for an individual to have some agency in extreme circumstances while still maintaining a cooperative society. It requires the State to administer proper retributive justice that's satisfying to the victim.
The public morality has to create a sense of fairness, or people will bow out and you'll get an honor culture whether you like it or not.
The visceral example you give should be balanced by examples of dueling which were rigorously disciplined, like the Hamilton-Burr incident, and which are still a source of fascination today. Watch John Wick 4. The conflict is brutal still in its resolution, but also with a sheen of nobility that makes gives it a sense of well-prepared tournament fairness and inspires others to take it seriously, and it works. We actually find that awe inspiring to watch.
The underlying issue is still whether western culture has eaten enough retribution for how they dealt with minorities and women over centuries. It’s clear the minorities and women will never think it’s enough, and the white men think otherwise. We have no way to settle this, and installing permanent embarrassment into public morality and institutions is a route that doesn’t solve anything.
Eventually, fairness is empty and subjective, and you go back to truth as conflict. That’s where we are. Subjugation for the sake of avoiding conflict is simply cowardice. The experiment in self-flagellation to mend the past is over, it failed. It’s a power struggle again, strategize accordingly.
The balance you speak of is not balance but one of class. The upper classes dueled in a more 'civilized' fashion but most people were not the upper class and it is silly to LARP as an aristocrat from the past unless you came from such stock. Most of us hail from more humble roots and the behavior I quoted was more common. It is the bloody reality of honor cultures. Even the German dueling that saw men wear scars on their face became corrupted over time. A good book to read is Dueling: The Cult of Honor in Fin-de-Siecle Germany. You learn the German duel devolved into not a battle of skill but one where the bearing of pain was all that mattered, movement was restricted and it became farce. The British moved to boxing that the Germans sneered at and the French dueled with swords far less but skill in their competitions still mattered.
The fading of an ideal neither gives a reason to abandon it forever, nor does it set a path that every future version is doomed to repeat. The upper classes were the models and of course the lower classes screwed it up, they always screw it up. So what?
Take it down to its core. The honor culture reflects a willingness to accept that life comes with conflict which is often intractable, and the duel is a way to resolve it. The outcomes can be arbitrary or reward those who are good at violence alone, but at least things get ordered in the end.
You know what’s worse than that? Innocence in the Christian mode. Trying to get back to a vision of childlike universal curiosity and acceptance. Playing games with forgiveness and piety. You keep talking about LARPing as if we’re all children pretending to be grownups when we should be doing child things, and I have no taste for it. It’s a responsibility dodge, and moral innocence is just naïveté covered in cubic zirconias.
Develop an ideal that deals with conflict for what it is, or learn to live with the old one.
The upper classes at one point were well trained brutes. Cultured Thugs. They would soundly beat the lower classes. This is the ideal I believe in but most people are just LARPing because they themselves have never trained in physical violence on a regular basis. If you want an honor culture of any kind some kind of martial spirit has to come back, you have to allow and encourage physical sports to thrive amongst young boys and men, make boxing and wrestling popular again and mandatory. The longhouse or whatever you want to call it would fear this the most.
Now, I agree with much of this, but the violence wasn’t brute violence. It was organized, and it had merit beyond raw strength because it relied on men having mutual respect and to operate as a team. This is the most raw form of preparation for ordering society, and sports are the great training ground, but they should be team sports.
The ethics matter in the sense that you have to trust the man to your left and right and shared code allows this. We just aren’t talking judeo-Christian ethics. We’re talking honesty, contribution, strength and resiliency. Pity and over-valuing an individual life makes a man unworthy of authority. Having a sense of greater perspective, and an acceptance of the need for united effort and control, makes everything work.
The life and works of Roman McClay are relevant here. He had an obsession with honour based violence and how many insults a man was meant to cheerfully absorb. Trying to do something about it lead to the deaths of several he felt wronged by and then his own death.
A bit more nuance between virtue (not the signaling kind), honor and justice would help the essay. I think the justice aspect deserves more attention. While it's true, there are higher and lower moral orders, and it's understandable how our scaled up societies currently frown upon vigilantism, more than slave morality, it's also a consequence of our previous generations externalizing violence as a consequence of the world wars. Those were really heavy on the psyche. The relative calm and tranquility of the 50s and 60s was briefly disturbed in the 70s and 80s, but nothing like the gritty violence of the 19th century.
The justice aspect is interesting because while honor has diminished in significance, the growing organic grievances felt by ordinary folks can lead to explosive forms of chimping out. Rittenhouse is a good example of untempered youth chimping out on perceived comunity justice/grievance. In Europe we have yet to have a Rittenhouse moment. In either case, at dusk people return home. It's if the chimping out leads to rioting that things could get unpredictable.
For instance, if DJT fails, or rather, when his base realize he's just a keyfabe part of the ssdd elite simulacra shafting everyone, the chimp out could become unpredictable. In this regard in Europe we're ahead, politics is more evolved, at the same time the equivalent of the deep state Dems here really have their hooks deep into the silent majority, whereas Maga inherited the tea party and my impression is the dissident space is growing by orders of magnitude, whereas in Europe, it's still confined to silos within political parties instead of a social movement across the continent.
In either case, lack of justice and fairness will instigate the chimp out, if it happens, not honor. I don't think most people in the West even really know what honor is.
Also, your essay assumes the receiving end of the chimp out won't act out. I'm going to venture a guess that it may well turn out that a minor chimp out creates a reaction with a snowball effect. The recent arrivals on both continents tend to band together, which is good for their self survival (numbers advantage in chimp outs), but could also spark a snowball effect depending on how serious it all becomes. Aside from terror related events, we don't have examples of what happens if there's a deadly brawl between two groups of chimps. It may well be that people rediscover what monsters lurk within each of us if things get serious, however unlikely this is in reality.
Now I understand people saying “ABC” online. Balance is the issue. People need agency but also stability. The real issue is that the government is terrified of a re-balancing because that means a reduction in their power.
People begging the Trump administration for anything, let alone to restore law and order, are beyond saving. Time spent on them is time wasted, and there's no time to waste.
Didn't the first responders taking over from Penny opt out of reviving Our Greatest Strength - is this an example of traditionally agentic fields trending towards apathy, or did the lack of public virtue and recognition in the immediate sense trigger slavish skirting of ownership?
Not sure, but it would fit the times either way.
I'm ready for the chimp out. They are going to have to print loads of free money to squash this in the near term.
I'm getting closer to a "chimpout" the next time I am at Krogers and see a giant tranny shopping for produce in the produce section, with his three daughters in tow, probably 8, 10, and 12 years old, who have been taught to call him "mom".
As a matter of personal honor.
As humiliation after humiliation piles up, on me, and on those girls.
We know what honor based 'white' societies look like and they aren't successful places or places you want to live. Today it's South America. The guys who LARP that they actually want to return to that never seem to train in violence in their personal life. They never seem to understand what the violent honor based culture of the Ulster-Scots looked like:
"Meanwhile, the poorer class of Scotch-Irish continued to use the raw violence of their ancestors to settle scores. Scratching, biting, hair pulling, and eye gouging were all fair game. The goal of this style of fighting wasn’t just to defeat your opponent; it was to mark him permanently, to leave visible, lasting proof of his humiliation. This style of honor fighting among the working-class in the South became known as the rough and tumble."
"Gouging out eyes was not only acceptable but expected. In fact, eye gouging was so common in rough and tumbles that this style of fighting was often called “gouging.” Some men even grew their fingernails out to increase their gouging efficiency. "
Ask yourself if what is described above is really all that different from certain behaviors exhibited by non-whites?
Chimping out as you call was what whites did until relatively recently towards each other as much as anyone else.
As your above examples show, there's a reason honor cultures don't scale and why republican societies took over. The question becomes how to limit retributive violence enough for an individual to have some agency in extreme circumstances while still maintaining a cooperative society. It requires the State to administer proper retributive justice that's satisfying to the victim.
The public morality has to create a sense of fairness, or people will bow out and you'll get an honor culture whether you like it or not.
The visceral example you give should be balanced by examples of dueling which were rigorously disciplined, like the Hamilton-Burr incident, and which are still a source of fascination today. Watch John Wick 4. The conflict is brutal still in its resolution, but also with a sheen of nobility that makes gives it a sense of well-prepared tournament fairness and inspires others to take it seriously, and it works. We actually find that awe inspiring to watch.
The underlying issue is still whether western culture has eaten enough retribution for how they dealt with minorities and women over centuries. It’s clear the minorities and women will never think it’s enough, and the white men think otherwise. We have no way to settle this, and installing permanent embarrassment into public morality and institutions is a route that doesn’t solve anything.
Eventually, fairness is empty and subjective, and you go back to truth as conflict. That’s where we are. Subjugation for the sake of avoiding conflict is simply cowardice. The experiment in self-flagellation to mend the past is over, it failed. It’s a power struggle again, strategize accordingly.
The balance you speak of is not balance but one of class. The upper classes dueled in a more 'civilized' fashion but most people were not the upper class and it is silly to LARP as an aristocrat from the past unless you came from such stock. Most of us hail from more humble roots and the behavior I quoted was more common. It is the bloody reality of honor cultures. Even the German dueling that saw men wear scars on their face became corrupted over time. A good book to read is Dueling: The Cult of Honor in Fin-de-Siecle Germany. You learn the German duel devolved into not a battle of skill but one where the bearing of pain was all that mattered, movement was restricted and it became farce. The British moved to boxing that the Germans sneered at and the French dueled with swords far less but skill in their competitions still mattered.
The fading of an ideal neither gives a reason to abandon it forever, nor does it set a path that every future version is doomed to repeat. The upper classes were the models and of course the lower classes screwed it up, they always screw it up. So what?
Take it down to its core. The honor culture reflects a willingness to accept that life comes with conflict which is often intractable, and the duel is a way to resolve it. The outcomes can be arbitrary or reward those who are good at violence alone, but at least things get ordered in the end.
You know what’s worse than that? Innocence in the Christian mode. Trying to get back to a vision of childlike universal curiosity and acceptance. Playing games with forgiveness and piety. You keep talking about LARPing as if we’re all children pretending to be grownups when we should be doing child things, and I have no taste for it. It’s a responsibility dodge, and moral innocence is just naïveté covered in cubic zirconias.
Develop an ideal that deals with conflict for what it is, or learn to live with the old one.
The upper classes at one point were well trained brutes. Cultured Thugs. They would soundly beat the lower classes. This is the ideal I believe in but most people are just LARPing because they themselves have never trained in physical violence on a regular basis. If you want an honor culture of any kind some kind of martial spirit has to come back, you have to allow and encourage physical sports to thrive amongst young boys and men, make boxing and wrestling popular again and mandatory. The longhouse or whatever you want to call it would fear this the most.
Now, I agree with much of this, but the violence wasn’t brute violence. It was organized, and it had merit beyond raw strength because it relied on men having mutual respect and to operate as a team. This is the most raw form of preparation for ordering society, and sports are the great training ground, but they should be team sports.
The ethics matter in the sense that you have to trust the man to your left and right and shared code allows this. We just aren’t talking judeo-Christian ethics. We’re talking honesty, contribution, strength and resiliency. Pity and over-valuing an individual life makes a man unworthy of authority. Having a sense of greater perspective, and an acceptance of the need for united effort and control, makes everything work.
Apollo of the city and Artemis is the forests are twined. They balanced each other to make life possible and flourishing. Distinct and inseparable.
The life and works of Roman McClay are relevant here. He had an obsession with honour based violence and how many insults a man was meant to cheerfully absorb. Trying to do something about it lead to the deaths of several he felt wronged by and then his own death.
A bit more nuance between virtue (not the signaling kind), honor and justice would help the essay. I think the justice aspect deserves more attention. While it's true, there are higher and lower moral orders, and it's understandable how our scaled up societies currently frown upon vigilantism, more than slave morality, it's also a consequence of our previous generations externalizing violence as a consequence of the world wars. Those were really heavy on the psyche. The relative calm and tranquility of the 50s and 60s was briefly disturbed in the 70s and 80s, but nothing like the gritty violence of the 19th century.
The justice aspect is interesting because while honor has diminished in significance, the growing organic grievances felt by ordinary folks can lead to explosive forms of chimping out. Rittenhouse is a good example of untempered youth chimping out on perceived comunity justice/grievance. In Europe we have yet to have a Rittenhouse moment. In either case, at dusk people return home. It's if the chimping out leads to rioting that things could get unpredictable.
For instance, if DJT fails, or rather, when his base realize he's just a keyfabe part of the ssdd elite simulacra shafting everyone, the chimp out could become unpredictable. In this regard in Europe we're ahead, politics is more evolved, at the same time the equivalent of the deep state Dems here really have their hooks deep into the silent majority, whereas Maga inherited the tea party and my impression is the dissident space is growing by orders of magnitude, whereas in Europe, it's still confined to silos within political parties instead of a social movement across the continent.
In either case, lack of justice and fairness will instigate the chimp out, if it happens, not honor. I don't think most people in the West even really know what honor is.
Also, your essay assumes the receiving end of the chimp out won't act out. I'm going to venture a guess that it may well turn out that a minor chimp out creates a reaction with a snowball effect. The recent arrivals on both continents tend to band together, which is good for their self survival (numbers advantage in chimp outs), but could also spark a snowball effect depending on how serious it all becomes. Aside from terror related events, we don't have examples of what happens if there's a deadly brawl between two groups of chimps. It may well be that people rediscover what monsters lurk within each of us if things get serious, however unlikely this is in reality.
Rittenhouse was not a chimp out. He very methodically deployed only enough force to defend himself. His behavior was a model of self-restraint.
“I really want you guys to understand”
that reads VERY “white”
The social paper has been cut to ribbons. Rock beats scissors.
Very well thought out and written.
Apes. Together. Strong.
Oh hell yeah
Good morality increases strength, wisdom, temperament, and fecundity of a man and his nation. Bad morality degrades these attributes.
Now I understand people saying “ABC” online. Balance is the issue. People need agency but also stability. The real issue is that the government is terrified of a re-balancing because that means a reduction in their power.
People begging the Trump administration for anything, let alone to restore law and order, are beyond saving. Time spent on them is time wasted, and there's no time to waste.